Re: [forum] A strawman proposal for X.org & XFree86.org

[Marco Bubke <marco@bubke.de>]

Vadim Plessky wrote:

> On Monday 31 March 2003 20:08, Marco Bubke wrote:
> |  Vadim Plessky wrote:
> [...]
> |
> |  >It's also wrong to suggest that OpenGL is accelerated on all Desktops.
> |  >I have ATI Rage Mobility (based on Mach 64, 2 year old notebook), and
> |  > OpenGL is not accelerated.
> |  >Besides, OpenGL doesn't address many apsects of typical Desktop (like:
> |  >*static* rendering of anti-aliased text at small size)
> |
> |  I can do AA font rendering on texture basis and with glDrawPixels and
> |  its fast. You don't must use geometry for that. You can paint directly
> |  to the framebuffer. What do you mean by static?
>
> There is a huge difference when you render rotating/moving picture, or have 
> just sattic one (not moving, not rotating)
> *Blurring* effect of renderingis not visible on rotating/moving surface.
> And you would notice such effect immediately in word processor or on web page.
>  
What du you mean by blurring. Do you mean filtering? Do you have ever 
programmed with OpenGL? If you use glDrawPixel you have no blurring. You 
write the pixels in the framebuffer. Do you mean blurring by texture 
filtering? I don't say that you have to use geometry. You can draw Pixel 
directly to the framebuffer and can use  this pixels also with the 
blending operations. Filtering is only a problem if you use texturing.


> |
> |  >|  differentation between  2D and 3D is IMHO not more nessesary. There is
> |  >|  also OpenGL ES for the embedded sector. I think it's the better way to
> |  >|  use OpenGL for drawing (plus a high level wrapper around it)  so there
> |  >|  don't must be written two drivers. In this way you could mix 2D and 3D
> |  >|  much more easily.
> |  >
> |  >Apple started to use OpenGL for UI in latest version on MacOS X (10.2-
> |  > Jaguar) It's called somewhat Quartz Extreme.
> |  >We (several people interested in SVG and vector graphics) have discussed
> |  >Quartz Extreme & Quartz some time ago, and common conclusion was that we
> |  > need to get PS-like, PDF-like API out & working first.
> |  >Than we can extend it somehow to 3D.
> |
> |  I don't say 3D. OpenGL is also 2D! The use of OpenGL in Quartz extreme
> |  isn't so sophisticated. AFAIK the render the windows to texture. The
> |  Rendering is still on the CPU.
> |
> |  >But getting SVG-based Window Decorations in TWM or Metacity is mor
> |  > eimportant for *current user* than 3D OpenGL-based animated buttons
> |  > which he/she can get in the future.
> |
> |  I'm not interested in this 3D stuff for animated buttons. I'm interested
> |  in the use for OpenGL als drawing API. So far I know SGI have sometimes
> |  implemented a Xserver in OpenGL and it was very fast.
>
> I just wondering wether SGI is going to open-source that Xserver?..
>  
Ask SGI.

At our graphics department we are teaching OpenGL for newbies. They find 
it much easier than X11/GDI/ or the libraries on the top of that. The 
students are writing little 2D vector apps or something like that. Why 
invent something new if there is a interface which satisfied all the 
needs of the people and and there are much experiences with this interface.

Marco