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Re: [Sipping] Hi Paul //About draft-ietf-sipping-sip-offeranswer-11



I agree that this sort of thing is best practice suggestion and should
not contain normative language.

	Thanks,
	Paul

DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote:
> offeranswer was the informational document that examined poor usage of 
> existing normative specification text in RFC 3264. It is not intended to 
> carry nomative information in its own right.
>  
> If you feel normative language is needed, then you need a document that 
> updates RFC 3264, either as a separate document or one that replaces it. 
> We have talked about that in the past as part of the SIP work, shortly 
> before the SIP group got closed.
>  
> regards
>  
> Keith
> 
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* sipping-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:sipping-bounces@xxxxxxxx]
>     *On Behalf Of *gao.yang2@xxxxxxxxxx
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, March 02, 2010 7:02 AM
>     *To:* Paul Kyzivat
>     *Cc:* sipping
>     *Subject:* Re: [Sipping] Hi Paul //About
>     draft-ietf-sipping-sip-offeranswer-11
> 
> 
>     Hi Paul,
> 
>     I just feel adding some BCP level description (something like the
>     description below) would let people do system design and implement
>     clearly.
> 
>     "When recv Re-INVITE without Offer, UAS SHOULD avoid of introducing
>     new media types without user's permission or local policy
>     configuration, that is its current using media types."
> 
>     Thanks,
> 
>     Gao
> 
>     ===================================
>     Zip    : 210012
>     Tel    : 87211
>     Tel2   :(+86)-025-52877211
>     e_mail : gao.yang2@xxxxxxxxxx
>     ===================================
>     ----- 转发人 GaoYang140197/user/zte_ltd 时间 2010-03-02 14:56 -----
>     *GaoYang140197/user/zte_ltd*
> 
>     2010-03-01 13:44
> 
>     	
>     收件人
>     	Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@xxxxxxxxx>
>     抄送
>     	sipping <sipping@xxxxxxxx>
>     主题
>     	Re: Hi Paul  //About draft-ietf-sipping-sip-offeranswer-11链接
>     <Notes://NJMAIL01/48257169002DF8EE/DABA975B9FB113EB852564B5001283EA/A95B47510FB03B93482576D6004E7AE9>
> 
> 
>     	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     As you have a new version, I think including sipping would be better :)
> 
>     Thanks for your agreement at this point.
> 
>     But as RFC3261's words of "willings" is not as clear as guidance for
>     system design and implement, I think some BCP level description
>     vcould be better.
> 
>     Thanks,
> 
>     Gao
> 
>     ===================================
>     Zip    : 210012
>     Tel    : 87211
>     Tel2   :(+86)-025-52877211
>     e_mail : gao.yang2@xxxxxxxxxx
>     ===================================
> 
> 
>     *Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@xxxxxxxxx>*
> 
>     2010-02-26 22:17
> 
>     	
>     收件人
>     	gao.yang2@xxxxxxxxxx
>     抄送
>     	sipping <sipping@xxxxxxxx>
>     主题
>     	Re: Hi Paul  //About draft-ietf-sipping-sip-offeranswer-11
> 
> 
>     	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     gao.yang2@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>      >
>      > I just find a potential problem of
>      > draft-ietf-sipping-sip-offeranswer-11. I am not sure will you
>     want have
>      > a new version, so I send this discussion offline.
> 
>     I am working on another version. I am including sipping in my response
>     so others have the opportunity to comment. (I trust that is ok.)
> 
>      > Section 5.2.5. of draft-ietf-sipping-sip-offeranswer-11:
>      > When the new offer is sent in response to an offerless (re)INVITE,
>      >    *all codecs supported by the UA are to be included*, not just
>     the ones
>      >    that were negotiated by previous offer/answer exchanges.  *The
>     same is*
>      > *   true for media types* - so if UA A initially offered audio
>     and video
>      >    to UA B, and they end up with only audio, and UA B sends an
>     offerless
>      >    (re)INVITE to UA A, A's resulting offer should re- attempt
>     video, by
>      >    reusing the zeroed m-line used previously.
>      >
>      >
>      > While Re-INVITE without Offer:
>      > For codecs, I think the UAS should include as many codecs that
>     the UA is
>      > willing(section 14.2 of RFC3261) to support. I think we should
>     let the
>      > UA has the right to decide which codecs can be use or not for this
>      > current call. At the same time, the UAS should be with
>     responsibility
>      > for failure of session if it cut down the number of codecs. UAS's
>      > willing of codecs can be implemented as local policy or some
>     other forms
>      > of configuration.
> 
>     Yes, this just requires minor tweak to wording.
>     Its consistent with the recommendations on sendonly/...
> 
>      > For media types, it is almost the same as codecs, about UA's
>     willing.
>      > But I think we should emphasize on avoiding of introducing new media
>      > types without user's permission, such as just introducing new media
>      > types  by equipment or software. Beacause I have met such charging
>      > arguement from users in some operating telecom-network.(If you
>     want the
>      > detail of the charging arguement, I'd like to share it with you).
>      > So, if there is no indication of permission of introducing new media
>      > types from the end user, UAS should just include current using media
>      > types. And if the other side(user of UAC) want to add media
>     types, it
>      > can using another new Offer.
> 
>     I get your point and agree. Its the same concept - include everything
>     the UA would be willing to use, not just that which it thinks the peer
>     wants to use.
> 
>                     Thanks,
>                     Paul
> 
>      > Thanks,
>      >
>      > Gao
>      >
>      > Section 14.2 of RFC3261:
>      > A UAS providing an offer in a 2xx (because the INVITE did not contain
>      >    an offer) SHOULD construct the offer as if the UAS were making a
>      >    brand new call, subject to the constraints of sending an offer
>     that
>      >    updates an existing session, as described in [13] in the case
>     of SDP.
>      >    Specifically, this means that it SHOULD include as many media
>     formats
>      >    and media types that the UA *is willing to support*.  The UAS MUST
>      >    ensure that the session description overlaps with its previous
>      >    session description in media formats, transports, or other
>     parameters
>      >    that require support from the peer.  This is to avoid the need for
>      >    the peer to reject the session description.  
>      >
>      > ===================================
>      > Zip    : 210012
>      > Tel    : 87211
>      > Tel2   :(+86)-025-52877211
>      > e_mail : gao.yang2@xxxxxxxxxx
>      > ===================================
>      >
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