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dickbo, Why the rude reply to Jack Phipps? He and others have told you that the "trick" in the SHO product involves at least two layers, and selective application of curves to the two layers. Nobody has argued that your logic is incorrect, but at some point it becomes irrelevant. rafe b - Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions.