Re: Darkroom hazards, was Levels & Curves

["Dave King" <kingphoto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Ansel was only one of many  photographers that lived very long lives.

Which really proves nothing.  In addition I don't recall anyone saying these
problems were of a life threatening nature.

> It seems that the only real concern with photo chemicals that has been
> documented by true professionals, not a bunch of eco-freaks is skin
problems
> from the developers.  This includes color chemicals..

I'm convinced from my own experience and those of many others that problems
from inhalation can develop over the long term.  Anecdotal, yes, but to the
best of my knowledge science has yet to find this issue significant enough
to turn it's considerable potential for investigation in this direction.  If
you know of any credible studies that track high exposure darkroom workers
over the long term, please let us know.

The numbers who use "science" to willfully and stubbornly ignore the
patently obvious are legion.  You appear to have joined their ranks.

Dave

>
> ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave King <kingphoto@mindspring.com>
> To: <scan@leben.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Darkroom hazards, was Levels & Curves
>
>
> > Artist beware isn't about photography, if I recall, photo chemicals only
> get
> > passing mention.  It's about materials that sculptors and painters use,
> some
> > of which are extremely hazardous.  Significant numbers of artists have
> been
> > severely injured before even knowing the potential dangers.  Perhaps
> you're
> > thinking of "Over Exposure", which is about photography specifically?
> Which
> > book are you referring to that came out after Ansel died?
> >
> > Whether the information is correct to the point of scientific certainty
> > isn't the deal here.  It's to alert people to the dangers, and help them
> be
> > avoided.  My memory of the book (it's not at hand) is that information
was
> > presented as it existed, some anecdotal, some from controlled tests as
> they
> > existed.  If I recall, caveats about accuracy were given.
> >
> > Most darkroom chemicals aren't terribly dangerous in the short term, but
> > neither is smoking, and my grandmother who smoked all her life lived to
> 80+.
> > The inference using Ansel as example is absurd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: morris <morris@jps.net>
> > To: <scan@leben.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 12:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: Darkroom hazards, was Levels & Curves
> >
> >
> > > Thats why Ansel only lived to be 80+.
> > > "Artest Beware" is a lot of BS from people that don't have any
> background
> > in
> > > medicine or bio-chemistry.
> > > The same people that felt BTFE in our gasoline would be good.
> > > Read the book that came out after Ansel died, which was reviewed by
both
> > > Harvard and RIT.
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Dave King <kingphoto@mindspring.com>
> > > To: <scan@leben.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:43 AM
> > > Subject: Darkroom hazards, was Levels & Curves
> > >
> > >
> > > > I was taught this in art school college level photo classes 30 years
> ago
> > > > too.  By cracky:)  Let's hope this isn't still being taught - ever
> > wonder
> > > > why so many old photographers develop Parkinson's?
> > > >
> > > > I haven't used my darkroom since investing in Profiler Pro and an
> X-Rite
> > > > DTP-41:), but I had become somewhat chemically sensitive over the
> years
> > > and
> > > > found a book called "Artist Beware" very helpful in the design of my
> > last
> > > > darkroom ventilation system.  (Another book called "Over Exposure"
> gives
> > > > hazard analysis for photographic chemicals specifically.  Don't know
> if
> > > > either is still in print.)
> > > >
> > > > Using what I learned in Artist Beware, I built a shallow but wide
box
> > onto
> > > > the wall the sink is against and the intake slot is the bottom edge
of
> > > that
> > > > box.  This box feeds into a larger volume mixing chamber that is
> > connected
> > > > by standard vent pipe materials to an exterior mounted *restaurant
> size*
> > > > kitchen exhaust fan (available at Grainer).  This puppy works, the
> slot
> > is
> > > > well below head level so fumes are routed away, and the pull is
strong
> > > > enough that small children and pets get sucked into the vent slot
when
> > > they
> > > > get too close:)  The stuff they market specifically as darkroom
> > > ventilation
> > > > products is a pathetic, and perhaps even dangerous, joke - they
don't
> > > work.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: gary <gsellani@accesscom.com>
> > > > To: <scan@leben.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 1:23 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: Levels & Curves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I've seen the motorized vents and Keeble and Schucat. If you
haven't
> > > been
> > > > to
> > > > > the SF Bay area, that is the "bring lots of cash but we have the
> best"
> > > > > camera store. It is one of the few lens rental places in the area.
> The
> > > > have
> > > > > the Jobo AT1500 there as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Getting back to the darkroom, I remember in high school handling
the
> > > > prints
> > > > > with bare hands. Even worse, one trick we learned was to rub the
> areas
> > > on
> > > > > the print you wanted to get developed a bit more because the
> friction
> > > > would
> > > > > heat up the area, which in turn speeded up development. I'm
guessing
> > > today
> > > > > nobody puts their fingers in the chemical baths.
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-scan@leben.com [mailto:owner-scan@leben.com]On
Behalf
> Of
> > > > > > byard pidgeon
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 5:38 PM
> > > > > > To: scan@leben.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Levels & Curves
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When you're putting in that "small darkroom", be sure you learn
> how
> > to
> > > > > > ventilate it properly so you don't poison yourself.
> > > > > > The American Lung Association may have some info for you on
this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on 12/26/2001 11:11 AM, gary at gsellani@accesscom.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > No argument that the digital manipulation is better than what
> > > > > > you can do by
> > > > > > > hand in a chemical process.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That said, I have a house in design stage and will put in a
> > > > > > small darkroom,
> > > > > > > something I always wanted. We may reach a point in history
> > > > > > where I am the
> > > > > > > last guy in America doing wet photography. ;-) I notice lots
of
> > > > > > enlargers
> > > > > > > showing up on the used market. Hmmm.....




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