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[OS:N:] RE: open-source-now-list digest, Vol 1 #664 - 3 msgs | |
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I am a network manager at a Middle School and I do use and push open
office and knoppix. But it is going to take some major marketing to get
open source software trusted because people always react the same way
when I tell them and show them about it. They think its neat but since
they already have MS garbage they wouldn't consider changing. Microsoft
and all other major companies have killer advertising and that will
never happen for open software unless it becomes funded by
conglomerations of open source producers. I would love to start a group
dedicated to advertising Linux, redhat, knoppix, and all the other
valuable alternatives. I have some great ideas for television adds. I
could imagine a TV advertisement where everyone on the commercial is
wearing the same size shirt with the Microsoft logo on it. Hundreds of
tall, short, fat, skinny, children, elderly, etc. people all wearing the
same basically the same shirt. Next scene you go to the mall and all the
stores carry only that same shirt with these ridiculous price tags.
Every where you go is the same shirt. Most people looking very
uncomfortable and having little bugs attached to the shirts because the
fabric is bug ridden. Then next scene you see these really well dressed
people comfortable in their customized tailored (tuxedos) suits and
casual attire. You then have this little kid wearing a bug ridden shirt
ask his mother "mommy, why can't we dress comfortably like the penguin
people?" Mommy replies," because that's the only clothes they sell in
the stores, and besides our shirts cost more anyways!" End of the
commercial. People are so programmed to think that even free computer
stuff has some misguided catch involved that they can't trust opensource
because it just seems too good. They are skeptical. I will keep trying
though.
Walter C. Hieber III
Network Manager
Denison Middle School
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: Questionaire about the support of students rights and the
freedom in the learning environment (tek)
2. Re: Re: Questionaire about the support of students rights and the
freedom in the learning environment (James Michael DuPont)
3. Re: Re: Questionaire about the support of students rights and the
freedom in the learning environment (tek)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "tek" <tek@pervasivenetwerks.com>
To: open-source-now-list@redhat.com
Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Re: Questionaire about the support of students
rights and the freedom in the learning environment
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:28:07 -0800
Reply-To: open-source-now-list@redhat.com
> > James Michael DuPont wrote:
> Alternatives exists for some things. Lets look at the case of a high
> school teacher that says the english report has to be delivered in
word
> format. Examples like that are abounding.
I write word documents, things ending in *.doc all the time.
im not using windows or MS office. If there wasnt something in free
software
that allowed that then i would agree with you but there are several,
they are
free and you get the source code. next?
Would it be more correct in your world to have the teacher have to buy
several
different software packages to read everyones reports? teachers aren't
exactly
paid very well and the schools dont have budget surplus's either. At
this point
anything you require a school to do that costs them more money requires
it be
taken away from an existing school program, like say lunch's and the
quality of
the food cant go down much further without being unedible in the end.
The
education system is crumbling under the weight of bureacracy and
administrative
costs. its the old to many chiefs and not enough indians analogy. we
need more
teachers not more administration.
>
> These contracts are by design to take away rights. Students are being
> pressured into to agreeing with them, or the are not able to take part
> in the learning experience.
download openoffice do your report and get on with it.
> You might say that they can choose not to
> take part, but is it fair for a taxpayer funded course to have these
> requirements? Who is benefitting from this? Are the contracts under
any
> type of government control? Can a teacher in a local high school
decide
> on his own to require the newest version of msword?
I will admit that i havent been in school since before computers but i
dont see
that happening, maybe at the college level but not below. besides
openoffice
will write in a format even officeXP can open. You have downloaded
installed and
used it havent you?
>
> I think that we have to look at the real issues at hand,
one of the issues you might look at is their budget, or lack thereof.
I am personally contacting the local school districts in my area to hand
out
knoppix for kids cd's and openoffice cd's, i urge everyone to do the
same. I
think that has more value both in the long term and the short term than
arguing
over what file format a report should be allowed to be returned in.
> and on the
> large scale, there is a wholesale removal of the rights of millions of
> students. They are not informed of their rights properly, and are
given
> no real alternatives then to sign them away.
welcome to the bush world. we are losing rights all over the place
faster than
the amazon is losing tree's some in the name of national security,
others in the
name of corporate greed. There are larger issues that have the ability
to
greatly curb your ability to use free software that need activists
badly. your
fighting the effect, not the cause is what i mean to say.
find out who is the head of your local school district, call and try to
make an
appointment and bring in a laptop with a knoppix for kids cd. bring
openoffice
for windows cd's. let them know about free software, you may get kicked
to the
curb but you also might find a very receptive audience when you ask how
much
they pay for computer apps and show them how to dump the costly software
and use
free stuff and use the money saved back in the schools.
Tnt
>
> mike
>
> =====
> James Michael DuPont
> http://introspector.sourceforge.net/
>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Michael DuPont <mdupont777@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Re: Questionaire about the support of students
rights and the freedom in the learning environment
To: open-source-now-list@redhat.com
Reply-To: open-source-now-list@redhat.com
--- tek <tek@pervasivenetwerks.com> wrote:
>
> > > James Michael DuPont wrote:
>
> > Alternatives exists for some things. Lets look at the case of a
> high
> > school teacher that says the english report has to be delivered in
> word
> > format. Examples like that are abounding.
>
> I write word documents, things ending in *.doc all the time.
> im not using windows or MS office. If there wasnt something in free
> software
> that allowed that then i would agree with you but there are several,
> they are
> free and you get the source code. next?
Sorry but not yet. My point is that the word document is a closed file
format. A public official, or a tax payed representative should not be
requireing those file format. RTF yes. .doc no.
The Doc files are one of the file formats that the department of
justice has demanded be opened up and documented.
There are enought examples of open office crashing that I can tell you
about, at work we have some windows users that love producing files
that crash open office.
Again, word is just an example. The point is that there are many
teacher who are requiring such file formats, that dont have to be word,
And word is still a problem. It will be a problem untill microsoft
publishes the file format, or it changes it EULA.
> Would it be more correct in your world to have the teacher have to
> buy several
> different software packages to read everyones reports?
TXT. PDF. RTF. HTML. all standards.
[SnIP]
> > You might say that they can choose not to
> > take part, but is it fair for a taxpayer funded course to have
> these
> > requirements? Who is benefitting from this? Are the contracts under
> any
> > type of government control? Can a teacher in a local high school
> decide
> > on his own to require the newest version of msword?
>
>
> I will admit that i havent been in school since before computers but
> i dont see
> that happening, maybe at the college level but not below. besides
> openoffice
> will write in a format even officeXP can open. You have downloaded
> installed and
> used it havent you?
Wait untill your kids go to the new microsoft highschool,
then we can talk.
http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/tech/article/0,1406,KNS_8976_2240464,00.html
> >
> > I think that we have to look at the real issues at hand,
>
> one of the issues you might look at is their budget, or lack thereof.
> I am personally contacting the local school districts in my area to
> hand out
> knoppix for kids cd's and openoffice cd's, i urge everyone to do the
> same. I
> think that has more value both in the long term and the short term
> than arguing
> over what file format a report should be allowed to be returned in.
I disagree. I have been writing to my congressmen, the president and
the new CIO of the states about this issue. I think we need to have the
government enforce the rights of the students to not be forced to use
non-standard and non-documented file formats.
Microsoft submitting its file format to ANSI would be a good step in
the right direction. All of this has been suggested by the department
of justice, but most people only care what microsoft says now a days
and not what the DOJ says.
>
> > and on the
> > large scale, there is a wholesale removal of the rights of millions
> of
> > students. They are not informed of their rights properly, and are
> given
> > no real alternatives then to sign them away.
>
> welcome to the bush world.
Yes, it is very scary. Bush and his worldcom, enron and microsoft
buddies.
>we are losing rights all over the place
> faster than
> the amazon is losing tree's some in the name of national security,
> others in the
> name of corporate greed. There are larger issues that have the
> ability to
> greatly curb your ability to use free software that need activists
> badly. your
> fighting the effect, not the cause is what i mean to say.
I disagree. The fundamental problem here is the disrespect of
fundamental rights. I feel strongly about my suggestions and think that
they are the right place to put the pressure.
>
> find out who is the head of your local school district, call and try
> to make an
> appointment and bring in a laptop with a knoppix for kids cd.
I live in germany, but am an american citizen. I will be trying to get
these issues raised on the right level. The local schools need to have
backing of the government and the EU. Germany is much more open to free
software and are using it in parliment.
>bring
> openoffice
> for windows cd's. let them know about free software, you may get
> kicked to the
> curb but you also might find a very receptive audience when you ask
> how much
> they pay for computer apps and show them how to dump the costly
> software and use
> free stuff and use the money saved back in the schools.
> Tnt
Yes. That is one aspect. I only have so much time. RIght now, my
making an issue out of the students rights is the only thing i have
time for.
mie
=====
James Michael DuPont
http://introspector.sourceforge.net/
__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "tek" <tek@pervasivenetwerks.com>
To: open-source-now-list@redhat.com
Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Re: Questionaire about the support of students
rights and the freedom in the learning environment
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:45:39 -0800
Reply-To: open-source-now-list@redhat.com
I had written a nice long and in depth response, it was so in depth that
my damn
webmail client i use timed out and all was lost. *POOF*
shit.
let me sum it up like this.
schools can be converted, the poorer the district the easier it is,
focus on
cost and the ability to hand out a knoppix cd and essentially give
every kid a
chance to have their own computer without needing a handout from
microsoft to do
so, if your a consultant like me offer to help them out for free, it
will come
back to you later.. do the right thing, your helping lots of people with
every
hour you donate.
that is the archilles heal to that argument. free software with free
support,
band together with local LUGs to help educate the educators. sure some
may not
care but some do and you only need a few to make a difference.
knoppix cd's.
leave them in every computer you touch, , libraries, internet lounges,
friends
computers....also makes a great gag gift if you dont tell them its been
left in
their cd tray. lol
honestly i find them to be great sales tools actually. everytime someone
tells
me how windows is better and can do so much more i ask them to show me a
windows
system that will run from the cd. usually shuts up everyone at that
point, even
the biggest window advocate finds themselves admitting that is pretty
damn cool
stuff..
but my best advice is this and no i wish i said it first someone told it
to me
and they had it told to them but it is so damn true.
"If you give me a fish you have fed me for a day. If you teach me to
fish then
you have fed me until the river is contaminated and the shoreline is
seized for
development. But if you teach me to organize, then whatever the
challenge, I can
join together with my peers and we will fashion our own solution."
?unattributed
Tnt
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