Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio

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Hi,

i didnt read the whole "poll", but as an audio professional in event business i would really like to see linux in much more professional audio applications... i cant stand that apple hype anymore... everyones running round with iSomethings and kneeling, praying and believing... and annoying...

and in my eyes it could be real benefit to have hardware promoted...
who knows perhapes companies like motu would do so too, if they see the progress of other manufacturers...

and are really annoyed by google ads or facebook ads?
for me im blind for all ads, if im not looking for something...

Bye
Ck



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Today's Topics:

    1. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Patrick Shirkey)
    2. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Fred)
    3. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Paul Davis)
    4. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Patrick Shirkey)
    5. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Paul Davis)
    6. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Louigi Verona)
    7. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Dan S)
    8. Re: poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio (Patrick Shirkey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:00:59 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Patrick Shirkey"<pshirkey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:  poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio
To: linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<48071.110.32.172.89.1335178860.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


On Mon, April 23, 2012 2:06 am, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
On 04/22/2012 04:04 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Sun, April 22, 2012 12:52 pm, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
On 04/22/2012 05:13 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Do other people here have any strong opinions on the usefulness of
advertising in the Linux Audio community?

Yes. I completely adhere to Robin's stance.

You do realise that many of the tools being produced by the Linux Audio
Community are being used in the advertising industry which makes us all
complicit in supporting it to start with.

IMO we cannot avoid that fact that advertising and marketing is a very
crucial component to global industry which enables the corporate world
to
continue to function. We should seek to manage our own channel and
therefore the message and brand rather than avoid it all together out of
some ridiculous fear of becoming Evil.
Sorry, it is not ridiculous at all.

The liklihood of the Linux Audio community succumbing to the evils of the
mighty dollar is pretty ridiculous. We have too many checks and balances
and are not afraid to call a spade a spade. We are certainly not beholden
to anyone else's agenda afaict.


We may even make enough money in
the process to pay some of our community members and help them to be
productive and motivated.
Managing our channel? Sorry, I don't quite understand. Do you mean
advertising our message on __other__ sites? What is "our message"?

The message is whatever we want it to be. If the message is that Linux
Audio is *only* interested in non profit, volunteer or barely breaking
even financial support from educational institutes then I guess we have
already defined it and there is nothing more to be done.

There is more to this community than just a bunch of well resourced
academics and semi retired technical experts with enough time on their
hands to give away everything for free.


If we continue to avoid the whole issue that is exactly what the "Evil"
marketing companies and corporations would like for us to do so that
they
can have complete control over the message, brand, content and income
stream...
It would seem to me the issue is not being avoided at all (witness the
long thread I'm still reading), it is just that not all people in this
list - which you asked for feedback - agree with your view of the world
and what linuxaudio.org should/could/must be.

That's fine that people disagree with me. I knew that before I asked the
list for feedback. I am seeking to find out how far it goes. Has it been a
conscious choice over the years to avoid the marketing industry as much as
possible or is it simply due to lack of expertise/interest/motivation.

One thing I don't understand is why some people think that taking steps to
make Linux Audio more attractive to advertisers in terms of providing
access to a professionally run channel for businesses that would like to
associate their brand with the Linux Audio platform is found to be so
distasteful.

Are we expected to believe that academia will provide all that we need and
therefore nothing else shall be required? What of the people who would
like to earn a living from the platform if possible are they simply on
their own or are we as a commmunity able to support them in their goals
too?



Linuxaudio.org currently has (AFAIK) complete control of its brand,
content and message. It is being kindly hosted by vt.edu and run by
volunteers. But of course I don't know the details. Advertising, if
anything, will dilute the control of the brand content and message - the
way I see it of course, you will disagree. As everything else in the
world, who puts the money eventually controls the message, not the other
way around.

The Linux Audio Consortium was originally setup to promote and support
Audio related businesses who seek to work with the Linux platform. What it
has become is primarily a means of promoting academic research and a "non
profit" agenda.


If advertising is accepted I presume linuxaudio.org will have to be
hosted somewhere else (out of the .edu domain). Then advertising becomes
a requirement for the survival of linuxaudio.org. No advertising, no
hosting money. The more linuxaudio.org depends on advertising to run,
the more it will be subject to control of its message.

That is why I have setup a new domain. linuxaudio.com was already taken
and would cost $3130 if anyone wants to purchase it. I think the
linux-audio.com domain is actually better suited as it provides a bit more
distinction so there should be less confusion from members of the
community. When it comes to people from outside looking in then they
probably won't make a distinction. But that is not necessarily a bad thing
as we can become "greater than the sum of our parts".




--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:11:37 +0200
From: Fred<f.rech@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:  poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio
To: linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:<4F9538E9.6030909@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed

Le 23/04/2012 13:00, Patrick Shirkey a ?crit :
What of the people who would
like to earn a living from the platform if possible are they simply on
their own or are we as a commmunity able to support them in their goals
too?


It could be instructive to have Paul Davis advice on this item ?



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 07:22:22 -0400
From: Paul Davis<paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:  poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio
To: f.rech@xxxxxxxx
Cc: linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<CAFa_cKm8vc0o9fEvfZWoZdj=aUHZ-rA9fJ1t8sOLoxnB87ypcQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Fred<f.rech@xxxxxxxx>  wrote:
Le 23/04/2012 13:00, Patrick Shirkey a ?crit :
What of the people who would
like to earn a living from the platform if possible are they simply on
their own or are we as a commmunity able to support them in their goals
too?



It could be instructive to have Paul Davis advice on this item ?
my "advice" is that you all stop wasting time on this inane thread.


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:29:37 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Patrick Shirkey"<pshirkey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:  poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio
To: linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<48312.110.32.172.89.1335180577.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


On Mon, April 23, 2012 1:22 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Fred<f.rech@xxxxxxxx>  wrote:
Le 23/04/2012 13:00, Patrick Shirkey a ?crit :
What of the people who would
like to earn a living from the platform if possible are they simply on
their own or are we as a commmunity able to support them in their goals
too?



It could be instructive to have Paul Davis advice on this item ?
my "advice" is that you all stop wasting time on this inane thread.
Ouch!

One of the few people who has managed to make a semblance of financial
return from the Linux Audio platform (well, most of the income comes from
the mac port really ;-P is not interested in advertising or do you just
think it is a foregone conclusion and therefore there is no need to waste
time discussing it?




--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 07:33:37 -0400
From: Paul Davis<paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:  poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio
To: Patrick Shirkey<pshirkey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<CAFa_cKnLtfTtC1MVFcn6LJM1fUPtEX7-bq8Oxy6VBTAFod1oWA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:

One of the few people who has managed to make a semblance of financial
return from the Linux Audio platform (well, most of the income comes from
the mac port really ;-P is not interested in advertising or do you just
think it is a foregone conclusion and therefore there is no need to waste
time discussing it?
this is the wrong forum (and probably the wrong *type* of forum) for a
discussion about the topic. in fact, even having a discussion about
something like this strikes me as a waste of time. its like discussing
  whether to add two lumps of sugar or three to one's morning coffee.


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:33:49 +0400
From: Louigi Verona<louigi.verona@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:  poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio
To: Patrick Shirkey<pshirkey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<CADqqn48TqchGws_E9Ys_S94khkDHi30s=WweQX6-L-LW9b4drA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I am reluctant to say more on the topic, but what I would say is that it is
very weird to me that people in this thread consider money "evil", as if we
are in the middle ages. Money is not an evil mystical power and I do not
see how money can "spoil" things.

I understand how "proprietary" approach is evil for a Linux community and
agree with that, but money itself?

As long as the ads are designed nicely and are not intrusive and are on the
topic, especially if it is about good audio and midi hardware that works
with GNU/Linux, I just fail to see any issues.

Louigi.
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:48:39 +0100
From: Dan S<danstowell+lxau@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:  poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio
To: linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<CANuikkq0=Ta_FiPCrP70caFAfc1re5MJDRhQQk2oCACR2unHjg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Patrick,

Firstly, if this is indeed a poll of general LAU members, my vote is
for the position articulated by Robin Gareus. Seems like quite a few
others agree.

Secondly, if it is a poll, it is extremely bad form to summarise the
positions in terms where you deliberately describe one side as having
extreme views about "evil blight on humanity" and "plague" and the
other side as being much more moderate.

It's also bad form to initiate a "poll" and then reply to criticise
people who vote.

Best
Dan


2012/4/22 Patrick Shirkey<pshirkey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi,

Some of you may know that we are having a discussion on the Consortium
mailing list at the moment about the role of advertising in the Linux
Audio Community. Specifically the discussion is focused around the
possibility of having some paid ads on a *couple* of the subdomains that
are hosted at Linuxaudio.org.

The views for and against appear to be very polarised. I would like to
know what other people who may not be monitoring the Consortium list have
to say about this topic.

One camp feels that advertising is an evil blight on humanity and should
be avoided "where ever" possible. Although that appears to be a flexible
"where ever" due to having supported advertising by some supportive
companies in the past.

The other camp thinks that advertising can be a useful way for the Linux
Audio Community to promote brands that support Linux Audio and by
association increase the general public awareness of the viability of
using Linux Audio as a business platform and another way to potentially
raise funds which can be used to advance the entire platform.

Do other people here have any strong opinions on the usefulness of
advertising in the Linux Audio community?

Should it be avoided like the plague or does it have some value that can
be integrated provided we set some boundaries?



Cheers

--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
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