Re: What will happen to XFCE, LXDE, Mate, Cinnemon in Fedora.Next

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On 21.03.2014 13:24, Christian Schaller wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Miller" <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 12:59:01 PM
Subject: Re: What will happen to XFCE, LXDE, Mate, Cinnemon in Fedora.Next

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:28:26AM +0100, Marcela Mašláňová wrote:
I agree with Jaroslav. I was looking forward to have a fourth
product to those three. KDE can help define what is needed for new
product, what must be done by all teams, how much work it will be
... I guess we should speak more about addition of new product and
don't kill the idea at the start.

Like I said, I'm skeptical, but listening. :)


While opinions differ on if we should 'ever' have more than 3 products, personally am very skeptical
to the idea of product proliferation, I think that as a minimum common sense measure we should not even consider
any further products before we have the current 3 products released and our infrastructure updated to handle
them.

I think this way of thinking about products is fundamentally wrong headed as that means that products are not independent from each other.

As I perceive it one of the biggest problems for Fedora as a development platform for new technologies is that everything is tied to very rigorous guidelines and controls that tend to be fairly conservative. This is great when you care about overall stability and coherence of the platform but terrible if you want to enable people to use Fedora as a platform to spearhead new technologies.

One example is the policy that patches for packages should first be submitted and accepted upstream before they make it into Fedora. This works great because that way you can ensure that once features are added in Fedora it is unlikely that they have to be removed later again because they are rejected upstream. It's terrible though if you want to live on the bleeding edge. Take for example the networking features of OpenStack that required kernel changes that weren't yet committed upstream or the fact that Docker required AUFS for a long time. In both cases Fedora was a terrible platform to develop these technologies because of its conservative stance.

What I hope will happen with the "Productization" of Fedora is that these products will be allowed to have a more independent identity and given more leeway to do things different. I will go so far and hope that eventually these products will be allowed to have their own policies regarding packaging and for example be able to ship their own kernel packages likely to be derived from the main kernel but with additional patches as the ones mentioned above.

This could be accomplished by making Copr an official Repository that products are allowed to rely on and which could be used to host alternative versions of packages. A product XYZ could have a channel XYZ in Copr and packages that are placed there are preferred over packages with the same name in the traditional repos.

Anyway my point is that telling product A that they cannot proceed with their work until product B is released is pretty much the opposite of what you want to do.

Instead the message should be: "Want to create a new way to manage the update life-cycle of systems (OSTree)? Want to create a new way to manage better application deployment (Docker)? Build a Fedora product as Fedora can provide you with a solid foundation for whatever you are trying to accomplish!"

Regards,
  Dennis
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