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In a message dated 9/19/01 7:21:27 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: >Sorry, Steve, but I'm a lawyer. Limitation of you liability and full-refund > >if the product is not satisfactory are two different things. Opps... now that you have let THAT out of the bag none of us will EVER build you a profile... <G> But come to think of it lawyers couldn't be any more difficult to deal with than photographers! In Steve's defense, to us simple minded folk who are only capable of dealing with color science, and not law, the two are identical: Liability is limited to a complete refund of your money. In my case I work as a consultant by the hour, so my time is spent doing what is requested, and if what is requested is building profiles, then I've still spent the time even if you aren't happy with the profiles. And if the same color chart printed on Epson's glossy paper, and on your third party glossy paper, at the same settings, yields bright colors on the Epson stock, and dull ones on the other, than its pretty safe to assume that you are looking at gamut limits (physical limitations) that mean NOBODY'S profile will make images bright on that paper. C. David Tobie Design Cooperative CDTobie@designcoop.com - Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions.