Re: Ozone and the orange shift--more disgusting every day

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--- "Editor - P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@p-o-v-image.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: "Michael Greer" <mgreer942@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > It disgusts me when people try to eleviate themselves from all personal
> > > responsibility by trying to make somebody else pay for their lack of wise
> > > decision making.
> 
> There is no way an end user who purchased a printer, relying on Epson's and
> Wilhelm's representations, when the printer was initially offered could have
> known the problems with the cyan dyes..  Epson had that info obviously from
> their experiences in Japan and Europe..

Obviously? Says who? The first I read of it was from Liz. And that was after
the printer had been released for over a month, maybe even 2 months.

> 
> Epson chose to sell the Premium Glossy Paper anyway...
> 
> If the aforesaid is true... That, what my grandmother used to call "an
> outright
> fib", disgusts me..

YES, I agree. But who knows for a fact that the powers that be knew? And what
sense would it make for them to release with these claims knwoing what would
happen. That would be a public relations suicide tactic.

> 
> > It also disgusts me when people want to torch a company
> > > without realizing that that company has almost single handedly freed
> > > photographers from depending on labs.
> 
> Now, whom has suggested torching the company?

Oh come on Keith. Lawsuits and such have been mentioned.

> 
> I have pointed out, as have others, that Epson has much to gain in the long
> run
> by honestly acknowledging and resolving this issue, or reimbursing early
> adopters..  Instead, the apologists would have us all just accept the fact
> that
> if Epson chooses short term profit over long-term image and the attendant
> profit...

Well, I guess you put me in the apologists category. But what you claim defies
logic. If anything, Japanese companies have been lauded for their long term
view of things. Short term profits? If the 870/1270 prints last as short of a
term as as been claimed, then the damages from the public relations nightmare
would far outwiegh any profits from the sale of printers user profit margin is
slim anyway. Remeber, the profit nodel for inkjets is in the consumables, not
the sale of the printer. So is the prints are not satisfying according to
claims, then the ink sales won't happen. No inkj sales, no ongoing revenue. It
simply makes NO financial sense to release a product with this forgone
knowledge.

> 
> If you should be disgusted with anyone it is the bean counters at Epson who
> will, if this is not handled properly (and it ain't lookin' god folks), end
> up
> driving away loyal Epson purchasers and future customers..  Consumer brand
> loyalty is fickle..

Yes, I will be interested in seeing how this is handled. It is the accusations
of malice with no evidence of such that irritates.

> 
> 
> > We may not be there yet. But we are
> > so
> > > close. I for one appreciate the fact that Epson saw a market niche and
> > went
> > > after it open throttle. HP could have done it, but they viewed the
> > photographic
> > > printing market as too narrow for their interests. Epson went for it and
> > we've
> > > all benefited because of that decision whether you want to acknowledge it
> > or
> > > not.
> >
> >
> 
> No one says that as a group we may not have benefited from the advancement of
> the product in general.. However, that doesn't change the injury some have
> suffered..

No it doesn't. But that doesn't mean those that have suffered have no part in
this. It simply seem prudent to me to evaluate claims. IAs I previously stated,
I wanted the claims for the 1270 to be true. And it seems like part (i.e. matte
paper) of the claims may be true while the glossy claims may not be accurate.
But I waited because these things are hard to know. If you adopt new
technologyu early on, then you should be prepared for the unexpected.

> 
> As for your comments on first generation products...
> 
> Automobiles often suffer from first generation defects... Answer?  Recalls..

Yes. But cars also cost many thousands of dollars. And by the way, not all
known defects undergo a recall campaign. I know what you may be thinking. That
the photographer's reputation (which is also worth many $$$) is at stake. ALL
THE MORE REASON FOR HIM/HER TO BE CAUTIOUS!!!!

> 
> When a product has a defect the onus is on the Manufacturer to fix it or
> replace
> and compensate anyone appropriate for financial losses.  It's called a
> "Warranty
> for Particular Use Intended" and a BASIC component of the Uniform Commercial
> Code.. If the item does not perform as advertised for the exact use
> advertised
> the manufacturer is, to put i bluntly, screwed..
> 
> That's why product development in the US is done before marketing, as opposed
> to
> being done by selling a prototype product and trying to get buyers to accept
> the
> defects..

If defects are known, I agree. Have you ever been envolved in designing
manufacturing, and selling products? there is NO WAY any company can replicate
all possible environments that a product to see. NO products would EVER be
released under this kind of system. The fact is that the market is a test lab
and we all are test engineers.

> 
> My position is not anti-Epson..  It may be anti particular executives at
> Epson
> USA right now, but that is no different than a stockholder being able to
> parse
> the interests of the company as a whole versus the interests of senior
> management..

You are basing you entire argument on the assumption that at the time of
product release, Epson executives knew that there was/is an absolute problem
prints on glossy paper. If you are correct, then they should be fried.

> 
> Welcome to the real world Michael, it does (for want of a better word)
> suck...

I've lived in the real world for many years. It is my experience in real world
design engineering and maufacturing that makes it so difficult for me to listen
to what I consider garbage spewed forth by many who have no clue as to what
they are talking about. It is my position, and I feel my responsibility to
speak up when I feel rediculous assertations are being made. The acceptance of
the world as it is is a defeatist attitude and is proclaimed by those who have
no energy to change it. Fairness and justice my be foriegn concepts to many,
but that doesn't eliminate the virtues of either. Many have adopted a
philosophy of elvaluating everything by how it affects them without looking in
the mirror as the primary cause for their condition. It is an attitude that in
my opinion will drag us all down. 

So sue if you must. Blame everybody else for the state of your condition if you
must. Continue to look elsewhere when things don't go your way if you must. But
ultimately, the realisation will strike that we end up in life as a result of
the decisions that we make.  


=====
Visit my digital photography web site along with a lot of other interesting stuff at http://greer.simplenet.com. Also, Greer and Associates (http://www.greeraa.com) offers studio photography, digital imaging services, web site design/construction, and training. 

Mike Greer

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