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David: In your rush to judgment your completely missed the jest of my post. What I said was there needs to be a well documented protocol for all interested parties who want to test their own products. They would set up their testing using ANSI standards. They would then test and publish their results. These results could be verified by anyone who adheres to the same protocols. That way if Wilhelm said a paper/ink and whatever tested such and such you could set up the same test in your lab and run the tests. You would either get the same results or you would not. My brother owns a large machine shop. They do government work. The government said the the parts they produce have to meet certain specs. It is the responsibility of my brother to set up his own testing lab to make sure those parts meet the specs. that have been set down. The people who get the parts then randomly test these parts to see if they meet their requirements. It has to be the same in our industry. ANSI sets the standards and those mfg. wanting to play the game would be required to meet those specs. At random a third party test lab could be testing the results that the companies say they meet. If they don't then they go into the shredder. You can not have only one or two companies dictating their results to the whole industry without anyone being able to verify their results. It is absolutely insane, but we all seem willing to accept it. Come on people get real and demand better oversight, or doesn't any care? Jim Davis mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > J. Arthur Davis <email@example.com> writes on 17 January 2000 at 09:47:53 -0500 > > > 4. It would get us out from under the dictates of a select few. We all > > seem to hold our breath until the powers to be tell us that something is > > good or bad. I am really tired of being held captive by an elite few. > > > > It is time for this problem to go away. If this standard procedure of > > testing would be made available I think we could all sleep a lot better. > > I would suggest that, until we understand the landscape a lot better > than we do today, we can't make a meaningful standard. We don't yet > know enough about what's important. > > That said -- if somebody did some controlled testing using a > documented protocol on an ink+paper+laminate combination under > controlled humidity and light levels, and measured the results > carefully with decent equipment, I think a lot of people would pay > attention. I know I would. It'd be better if you could get an > independent testing outfit to do it for you, though, one with a > reputation in accelerated color fading testing. I don't specifically > distrust you personally, or much of anyone else, but I really prefer > testing performed by an independent lab. > > I'd suggest using the same protocol Wilhelm uses, which I believe is > an ANSI standard, and documented. Just add the variable of coating. > > You might run non-coated samples at the same time. Ideally, run > samples that match what we know labs with a solid reputation have > tested or are testing. Then the similarity, or lack thereof, between > your results and theirs on the unsprayed samples can serve as an > additional check on the process. > > The concept of independent testing labs is that they remove the > variables of faud by manufacturers, and also the variables of what you > migh call careless lab procedures, favorable to the manufacturers own > products. People tend to be partisan, and without consciously > cheating, somehow get better results when they know what 'good' > results are. > > I do find it inconvenient that Wilhelm doesn't test the things *I* > want tested, and release the information when *I* want it, but I can't > think of a way to structure the world to make it work better (other > than making me very rich, so I could afford to commission the specific > tests I want). Last I heard, Wilhelm Imaging Research was a > commercial testing laboratory, not a public charity. > -- > http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ (photos) Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon > http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b (sf) http://ouroboros.demesne.com/ Ouroboros Bookworms > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / firstname.lastname@example.org > - > Please turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use > accurate subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for instructions. - Please turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for instructions.
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