[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

RE: Pitiful 6-ink results - NOW where do we go?



Royce, very interesting data on the MIS 6-color inks. Do I understand
correctly that they are pigment based? I have been very unhappy with my
tests of OEM ink on Somerset Velvet ... way too much dot gain ... absolutely
unacceptable. So, although the data is impressive, I would love to see tests
on a paper that does a better job on true photographic imaging.

Any thoughts?
Cathy

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-epson-inkjet@leben.com
[mailto:owner-epson-inkjet@leben.com]On Behalf Of Royce Bair
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 5:54 PM
To: epson-inkjet@leben.com; PJStreet@aol.com
Subject: Pitiful 6-ink results - NOW where do we go?


Pat <PJStreet@aol.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the information, Royce.  Good grief. NOW what do we do?
>Pat
>
>Royce Bair wrote:
>
><<Wilhelm's report had the following:
>
>EPSON STYLUS 3000 PRINTER (Lyson 4-ink Fotonic Inks)
>Arches Cold Press Paper   (tests in progress)
>Somerset Velvet Paper   (tests in progress)
>Lysonic Standard Fine Art Paper   2-3 years
>Epson Photo Paper (1998 "Improved" type)   2-3 years>>


Pat,

Like Cathy Brown said, "I had naively bought a 1200 and was patiently
waiting for the Silver/ Fotonic inks to become available and planned
to standardize on
Luminos Preservation papers. Now I don't know what to do!"

I wouldn't panic too much just yet. Remember, the Lysonic E inks were
lasting >120 years on the Luminos Lumijet DW Premium Glossy and
Tapestry X papers, so there's a good chance they should last at 30-40
years with the 6-ink Silver inks.  There will probably be other paper
choices down the road, and these inksets are bound to improve --
there's just too much riding on their success.

Also, I wholeheartedly agree with Jon Cone's recent post (Wed, 03 Nov
1999 10:40:22):

<< One thing to keep in mind is that fluorescent lighting (the type Wilhelm
uses for his testing) is very destructive to dyes. If these were tests
conducted under tungsten or incandescent or even sunlight - the results
would be more acceptable to us. However, there may not be enough money on
this planet to pay for this type of testing. RIT for example alots only a
small square foot for an approx. $1500 test filtered to specifications.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Wilhelm has specific criteria in
relation to gray balance fade which almost always is the first failure and
results in the rating. The prints are not necessarily faded to the degree
that you might envision. What for example would a 20% shift in neutrals look
like, while the colors are still strong.  Would we find that unacceptable?
I imagine some would who are printing fleshtones or gray backgrounds - but
others printing bright colors would not notice. Too bad he doesn't produce
subjectivity results stating gray balance, reds, blues, and so on.

I think that it is important to take these results with a large grain of
salt. 450LUX is an enormous amount of illumination. Go into the MOMA or the
Metropolitan Museum of Art and look at their works on paper galleries - at
50-75LUX. This is only a small percentage of the 450LUX Wilhelm uses.
Wilhelom also uses 12 hours of illumination a day.  12 hours over 8 hours is
50% additional light torture.  What if your works were illuminated at 200LUX
8 hours per day, 5 days a week... instead of 7 - and so on.....

Think about the conditions his tests suggest. Think about reality.  If you
can double or triple the life by reducing the illumination to an office for
example (about 100 to 200LUX at the walls) or in an interior part of
a home which typically lights only at night and in the mornings above
70LUX and so
on..... the rating would be many fold the WIlhelm rating.  Consequently - if
you put up in a stroefront - you would reduce it to a few weeks or days. >>

[End of the Jon Cone quote]

Jon and I are both disappointed and a little overwhelmed by the weak
showing of the 6-color inks (Lysonic or Fotonic).  Wilhelm had warned
us over 10 months ago that diluting the Magenta and Cyan dyes to make
the light magenta and light cyan inks for the 2 addition colors was
producing quite fugitive preliminary results -- but I had now idea it
would turn out this bad.

I'm wondering if the MIS Archival inks may be a better 6-color
solution for the meantime.  Here is my theory and real-world test
results:

Theory:  Diluting organic dyes appears to weaken the dye's resistance
to fading.  Would a diluted pigment (i.e. the MIS dye-pigment hybrid)
be less fugitive due to its more inert nature?  It is also known that
pigments are less susceptible to chemical reactions with various
paper coatings.

Test results:  We have a giclee print in our gallery that has been
under 9 months of 350 lux (9 hours, 5 days a week) of quartz halogen
lighting.  It was printed on Somerset Velvet Radiant White, with
6-color MIS Archival inks, using an Epson Photo EX.  75% of the print
is made of pastel and delicate tones.
See:  http://www.tssphoto.com/gallery/021999.pix/stan.html
Any fading would be easy to see in comparison to a second print that
is in dark storage, yet no noticeable fading has occurred.  A similar
print with Epson OEM inks showed noticeable fading (a major shift in
color) after only one month.

We recently printed two giclee prints on Somerset Velvet with the
6-color Lysonic E inkset, using the same Photo EX printer.  See:
http://www.tssphoto.com/gallery/091799.pix/bair1.html
http://www.tssphoto.com/gallery/091799.pix/bair4.html
These two prints show noticeable light magenta fading (after only two
months), producing an ugly green cast in the midtones and highlights.
Both prints were displayed under the same gallery lighting conditions
as the MIS inkset print.

BTW, the MIS archival inks have been available for the 1200 for over
a month now.
<http://www.tssphoto.com/sp/dg/archival_inks/mis_inks.html> The
preliminary test results with RIT are fairly impressive:
http://www.missupply.com/store.cgi?page=fading.html

    Royce Bair, Director
    royce@tssphoto.com
    The Stock Solution - "Inkjet Art Solutions" Division
    http://www.InkjetArt.com/

    Sincerely,

    Royce Bair, Director
    THE STOCK SOLUTION Photo Agency
    royce@tssphoto.com
    http://www.tssphoto.com/
    Phone: 801-363-9700  Fax: 801-363-9707
    Salt Lake City, UT 84101  U.S.A.
----------------------------------------------------------
-
Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate
subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions.

-
Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate
subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions.



[Photo]     [Photo Printers]    [Yosemite Photos]     [Scanner Discussion]     [Gimp]     [Gimp Users]

Powered by Linux