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Re: Bronzing with Fotonic inks

In a message dated 3/15/02 1:05:14 PM, MHull@TLNA.COM writes:

>Alright, David, which non-matte papers give the best life expectancy with
>dye inks?  I seem to recall its gelatin-containing papers.  Which are these?
>And don't they all cost about one USD per A4 sheet?

I'm not the ultimate authority on longevity... thats somebody elses area. i 
was trying to pointout that many of the highest quality print results happen 
with papers and inks not offering the longest life expectancies.
>And, while I'm asking, which *dye* inks *that work in desktop Epsons---and
>available in bulk* give the best life expectancy?

There is a fair amount of Ilford promotional material claiming that theirs 
are the longest lived dye inks. They are also limited to at best a few of the 
Epson consumer printers, and a short list of papers, and are quite metameric, 
with the degree of the metamerism varing paper to paper. So its very much the 
razors edge to use them. The Fotonics look extremely reasonable by 
comparison: easy to use, wide range of papers, etc... but about half the life 
expectancy, in general.

 Do Fotonics really
>more life expectancy, on their optimum non-matte papers, than the MIS 1270

Do you think I've raced these two horses head to head on exactly that track? 
I find the MIS dyes to be problematic to profile, which implies to me that 
they are probably metameric as well, so have not done my own testing with 
them, only profiled them when requested. I find the Fotonics to be easy to 
profile on a wide range of papers, but I use mostly the Epson Pro printers; 
they may not always work as well with the consumer models.

>The Fotonics are three times the cost of the MISs....

Maybe theres a reason for that... or not. Check and see if you can get 
Lumonious Silvers cheaper in this country, that would serve the same purpose.
>And what kind of paper is Epson Colorlife, that gives 10+ years with 1270
>OEM inks?  Will MISs or Fotonics perform as well?

Its a swellable polymer paper like the Ilford Classic papers. If you like the 
look of it, and can live with the metameric shifting it adds to any dye ink, 
by encapsulating it, then it should offer improved life to any dye ink. I'm 
not overly fond of the look of prints on this type of paper, and guess I will 
stick with other types rather than compromising quality for improved life 
expectancy. What is the value of an image that I'm not excited about, but 
that lasts a long time?
>I know that the Epson dye inks for the 7000-9000-10000 can be decanted
>CIS bottles. 

Careful, you are describing at least three different ink sets here...

 But will they work in a 1270/80 and give superior life
>expectancy to Fotonics or MIS dye inks?

The 1270/80 already have long life dye inks in them (ignoring the ozone 
issue). If you don't what to pay the price for Fotonics, or want a guarantee 
of a longer life (or at least a paper promise of it) thats fine with me.

 You yourself wrote recently they
>were different than the 1270 OEMs, for instance.

I can certainly show raw prints from different Epson printers, and make a 
case that they aren't all using the same inks!
>Mitch Hull, still trying to figure out a decent life-expectancy non-glossy
>non 1270 OEM ink+paper system for his 1270.....<sigh>

But does non-glossy mean luster (still slick) to you, or matte, like fine art 
paper, with a serious nap?

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
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