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Re: Ouch! and about final output on different media withdifferent inks

Hi Daniel,

see for my reply below,

on 15/2/02 7:36 pm, Daniel L. Taylor at daniel_l_taylor@taylor-design.com

>> My conclusion is that some printers seem to have problems with some papers;
>> that's the only explanation I can find why my prints were so different when
>> printed on different papers, even though the proper paper type was selected.
> Someone with calibration equipment can correct me if wrong, but isn't it
> unreasonable to assume that a print will be the same on any paper you use?
> Papers have different surface characteristics as well as different color
> temperatures / white points. There are probably some other subtle
> characteristics which affect how the image appears, such as how the ink is
> absorbed / held.
With my kit I am able to come very close. I made test samples: Printed the
same picture on all kind of different  materials: Premium Semi Gloss and
Watercolourpaper on the Pro 5500 (OEM pigmented Epson inks) and High Gloss
and some fine art papers on the Epson 1290 with OEM Epson dye-based inks.

The Epson pigmented inks are on watercolour paper giving far less contrast
an saturation compared with the Premium Semi Gloss.  (and less deep black)

But if I hold all prints side by side in my viewing booth (different media /
inks / printers!) they all come extremely close.
The white point of each paper will be different, but that we can simulate in
Photoshop if we proof our colours with the custom made output profile.
It means I can predict how a picture will look like on any paper (as long as
I profiled it) than I will see the subtle difference appear on screen.
Particularly in the dark areas a Gloss or Premium semi Gloss is far better
able to produce sparkling colours in the darkest area's whilst a Fine Art
Paper (like Hahnemule, Sommerset or Crane Museo) becomes in certain area's
muddy.  It's not the profile: Any ink/paper/printer combination has it's
limitations and that why the Epson pigmented inks are outstanding on premium
Semi Gloss, but not in all situations on watercolour, but again it depends
on the picture as well.
Multi coloured wall designs I made with the computer on screen with very
light pastel tones print fantastic on watercolour paper with the pigmented

Yes, different media, inks and paper and with very good profiles and the
highest quality inks / paper / printers! we should get on all very similar
results. (That's what I call Colour management) It just comes down to what
you like.. which surface etc.

All comparisations are done in a viewing booth at 5000K.
If I hold 2 prints side by side and one is made with Epson dye-based inks
and the other with the pigmented inks from Epson, hold them in Tungsten
light and the print with the pigmented inks will shift far stronger towards

> I was under the impression you couldn't expect to fully compensate for these
> differences. Sort of like complaining that your film scanner isn't working
> right because Velvia and Portra scans of the same scene look different.
> They're going to look different, no matter what you do or what "profiles"
> you apply.
Like I said, very close.. but some like fine art paper and others gloss.

> I tend to choose the paper based on what I'm printing. I know some shots
> just won't look right on some papers.
Yes indeed again: My interior /architecture photographs look for me best on
Gloss or Premium Semi Gloss, but my designs made on the computer on screen I
do prefer the fine-art papers.

>I never considered that a flaw so much
> as just part of having different papers.

Yes, indeed.


Udo J.Machiels
Atmos Design
United Kingdom

> Daniel L. Taylor
> Owner, Taylor Design
> Macintosh and PC consulting and software.
> Web: http://www.taylor-design.com/
> E-mail: support@taylor-design.com
> -
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