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CD, when I was using the Lyson Fotonics I printed about a dozen 16x20 Prints for a show. (black and white). Since I did this in daylight, and they looked very neutral, I was pleased. (3000 Printer). This was way before I started printing with Quad inks. The Fotonics made and do make beautiful color prints with little noticeable metamerism. BUT if you print black and white images with them, view them in Daylight, and then look at them in Fluorescent or tungsten lighting, the prints look magenta, light magenta, Deep Magenta and white. No grays, no blacks. Just Magenta. I was shocked. A local Gallery wouldn't accept them for exhibition, as I knew they wouldn't. That's when I got in to Quad Printing. When metamerism is this bad, you bet I'm picky. But this was nearly 6 years ago, and it is entirely possible that Lyson has corrected the problem. For color prints, they equal epson inks. Currently, Paul's curves, and the VM inks produce beautiful Black and white prints, as does my 1160 color printer you profiled for the MIS Color Archival inkset. I can get absolutely neutral, slightly cool, or very cool black and white prints using the MIS color inks with that printer and your profile. Your color profile for my 1160 Epson produces perfectly neutral black and white prints, with no crossovers anywhere, with the MIS archival inkset. I Couldn't be more pleased with a profile. I Made a test yesterday, to see if I could match a pin using the VM inks on the 1280 and Your profile for the MIS color archival inks on the 1160. I used the cool curve from Paul Roark, Eclipse Satine Paper, 300 gsms. Got a perfect print on the 1280 printer. Then I tried the same image on the 1160 with your profile, and got nearly identical results. to make it match the print on the 1280 using Paul's cool curve, I added +2 blue and +1 cyan in a photoshop color balance adjustment layer. Side by side, you can't tell the prints apart, at 1440 DPI. I'd call that a damn good profile. Jerry CDTobie@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/8/02 2:15:49 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: > > >The result is a > > > >beautiful neutral monochrome with perhaps a hint of cyan in daylight > > Its a matter of perspective here, your "hint of cyan" is exactly analogous to > Jerry's "horribly metameric"... Jerry is extremely picky. > > C. David Tobie > Design Cooperative > CDTobie@designcoop.com > - > Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate > subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions. - Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions.