Harvey, With all due respect to the Library of Congress and the quest for the least chemically treated paper, Wilhelm gave a 100+ year rating to Gen4 on Royal Plush, a paper that I believe has optical brigteners. Does this in any way influence your thinking on this subject? What am I missing? Cathy http://www.catbrownphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-epson-inkjet@leben.com [mailto:owner-epson-inkjet@leben.com]On Behalf Of SKID Photography Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:08 PM To: epson-inkjet@leben.com Subject: Re: Matte vs Glossy As far as what Obs do (whether in the coating or base paper), and whether inks fade faster: We obviously do not know for certain yet but...There are hints out there. Optical brighteners are very active on a molecular level. That is how they work; and there are strong indications that the excited photons from the Obs can and do cause disastrous cascade events to the molecular structures (and stability) of inks. Do we know 'for sure'? No. Is it a good idea to use papers with OBs? No. At least not if you are going for a very stable (over years worth of time) image. I do not know if it was on this list (I actually think it was the Epson 9000 list and the Ink Options list), but Mike at M&M just had a disaster with some prints (using the Indelible Inks and Epson Archival Matte paper) he sent to a client via the US mail. It was a *paper* failure. They traced the route, and it was determined that the prints were irradiated for anthrax by the US post Office. Is this normal (to expect irradiation)? No, but it was an extremely aggravated aging test courtesy of the USPS. In my opinion, this is what will happen to all inkjet prints on papers with optical brighteners in them. Am I being obsessive compulsive about this? Probably. But I have seen 25 year old improperly washed B&W photos self destruct, and it's not something that I wish to repeat in inkjet printing if I can help it. It's like he big lie in the industry. All the paper companies tell you not to worry about it, but in 25 to 50 years there will be a whole generation of images that will just give up the ghost, and these companies will not be responsible *and* it will be too late. Look at what is happening to most of the 20 the Century documents...They are self destructing in their own acids. Now the Library of Congress has set up archival standards. If you want a stable paper, it must not contain any acids, be all rag, be slightly buffered, and have no optical brighteners. - Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions.