Re: To Dye or not to Dye

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> >If I were to show you a good dye and a good pigment print, both on a
matte
> >paper, such as Archival Matte, you would see both as being continuous
tone,
> >the only apparent difference being the colour range between the inksets.
.
>
> Alas, now you are putting your evaluation into my mouth.  I do not know if
I
> would see them both as being equivalent. (Note that I am willing to
concede
> that "continuous tone" may have been the wrong descriptor but it was the
> best that I could think of to try and convey what I meant).  But, apart
from
> what I would or would not see or you do or do not see, some users of
> pigmented inksets have reported that the finished products come out with a
> particulate (evidence of particles of pigment sediment) texture rather
than
> the smooth surface of a dye based inkset.  If this is an acceptable look
for
> your work then fine; but for some, it has the appearance of a drawing or
> pastel like painting rather than a traditional photograph.

Have you seen very many pigment-ink prints? I've done many comparisons
between dye and pigment inks, both colour and monochrome. Using a readily
available paper like Epson Archival Matte, there is no difference in the
texture of the inks. The particle size of the pigment inks is in the
sub-micron size, and they do not contribute to any visible texture on the
print in addtion to that of the paper surface. I've used Generations, Cone,
Epson, and MIS pigment inks. Sometimes, I'd like to print something that
looks pastel-like, but thats pretty hard to do, because all the prints look
like photographs.

> As for printing with pigmented inks on glossy papers, that is not what I
> have read and heard so I mentioned it as a factor.  Even if they do print
on
> some glossy stock it does not mean that they will print on all or most
> glossy stocks or print easily or well on those that they do.

Epson pigment inks are designed to print on glossy as well as matte papers.
And if you ever happen to see some large format prints using Epson pigments
on Epson glossy paper, I'm pretty sure you'd change your mind out whether
they look photographic or not. The upcoming Generations 5 pigment inks are
also designed to print on glossy papers. Most other pigment inks will not
dry on glossy paper, so they must be fixed in place with a protective spray.

> I am not confusing the "painterly look" with the textured paper surface
any
> more than I would confuse a water color on textured paper with an oil or
> acrylic on textured paper.  A dye based ink whether used on glossy or
> textured paper looks different than a pigmented ink on a comparable
surfaced
> paper apart from any differences in gamut or surface texture. But, once
> again, I am not attempting to argue with you, just mention some factors
that
> you might want to consider.  You obviously can take or leave my remarks as
> you will.

I print with both dyes and pigments every day. The differences you speak of,
in that dyes look photographic and pigments look painterly, simply don't
exist if you print on comparible paper surfaces.


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