Re: modem not responding

[Ben Dooks <ben-linux-arm@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 04:55:14PM +0530, Tushar wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-02-02 at 15:46, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 01:49:28PM +0530, Tushar wrote:
> > 
> > > also.  Actual problem is there are two types of developers on this list
> > > .Kernel developer who do not need to answer any one and application
> > > developers who have to answer their customers. And customer hardly care
> > 
> > Customers pay, right?
> > 
> > > 			So the I think we should support 2.4 kernel for at least some minor
> > > fixing with an advice to move to 2.6, and try to get more developer on
> > 
> > And the "we" you're asking this of here, you're asking this for free?
> > 
> > 
> > This is one of the reasons why the kernel developers are not always keen to
> > volunteer their time to look into other people's commercial problems.
> 	It's not about commercial or non-commercial, its about problem that
> need to be solved.
> > 
> > But possibly the bigger reason is that questions keep being asked about
> > *old* 2.4 kernel versions. People aren't asking about 2.4.26 or 2.4.27,
> > but kernels at least 2 years old, that are known to have bugs, and those
> > bugs are known to be fixed in later kernels. If you ask a question about
> > a problem in 2.4.18, it's quite possible that it's fixed by 2.4.27. So
> > you're asking someone to volunteer time to dig through a source tree they're
> > no longer that familiar with, with the strong change that their only reward
> > is being able to tell you that it's a "problem we already fixed"
> > ie COMPLETE WASTE OF THEIR TIME. And remember, THEY ARE NOT GETTING PAID
> > FOR THAT. No money, and no satisfaction. And you wonder why they don't
> > enjoy it?
> 	Better  u don't answer them. But the move that all MUST use new kernel
> throwing away their all work is not correct. I agree that new kernel
> should be used for new development, but what about maintenance of
> systems which are using older kernel and can't be upgraded so easily? 

Most of the questions seem to be stuff that people only realise does not
work when they come to try it, and suddenly demand that their problems
are fixed because their project is going down the drain.

If we do not answer, all the happens is the question gets asked again
and again (though some people do seem incapable of finding the right
list, or refering to an search engine).

> 	My point is that support for older kernel must not stop suddenly. Give
> people enough time to move to new kernel and have smooth transition. The
> best way to stop people using 2.4 kernel is to provide better
> alternative.      

This is supposed to be 2.6. 

My main problems are the following:

1) The number of people who you say `This is fixed in 2.6, please use it`
   who simply refuse to acknowledge, and give no reason for why they cannot
   be bothered.

   if they cannot be bothered to even give me a reason, I do not feel the
   need to even think about supporting an out-of-date kernel, often with
   vendor patches on which I haven't the time to look at.


2) The number of groups only supporting 2.4. If more effort was made, then
   maybe the arguments over 2.4 versus 2.6 would be less controversial


3) In my case, I really _do not_ have the time to support two major kernel
   versions, as well as contribute towards the other projects I'm involved
   in. Even though work give me time to support certain parts of the kernel
   and open source porjects, it does not leave me much spare time.


4) The jump from 2.4 to 2.6 is not difficult (unless someone can otherwise
   prove - see comment 1), the difference from user-space is not major and
   pretty much all of the standard utility suite can cope with the changes
   now.

> > 
> > If you're being constrained to particular older kernel versions by your board
> > or device manufactures, why not put pressure on them to explain their
> > reasoning, and if you are a *paying customer* of them and their answer is
> > not satisfactory, consider taking your money elsewhere.
> 	The explanation is most often you will get it after some time. Wait
> till that time or start with what u have.

As an open-source developer who also inhabits the world of commercial linux
support and development, it is not impossible to support both the old and
new kernel versions. We have successfully managed to migrate customers from
2.4 to 2.6, and indeed are in the motion of moving our customer base from
2.4 to 2.6.

-- 
Ben

Q:      What's a light-year?
A:      One-third less calories than a regular year.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscription options: http://lists.arm.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm
FAQ/Etiquette:       http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/armlinux/mailinglists.php