Re: You Need Fedora Legacy!! Re: [fab] looking at our surrent state a bit
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Eric Rostetter wrote:
Agreed... getting people to participate is one thing, but the effort to contribute is a bit high at the moment, considering that most folks are making this part of their spare time...Quoting Axel Thimm <Axel.Thimm@xxxxxxxxxx>:The issue is also not the infrstructure IMO, it's simply lack of human resources and either someone needs to assign them to it if that entity (Red Hat/board/whatever) considers that a worthy goal, or the resources need to come from more voluntary people, e.g. FL needs a marketing manager.I think it is both Infrastructure and lack of humans, plus stupid barriersthat shouldn't exist.
It's also about organizational leadership, which to be honest, I do find lacking... there is no specific plan, no accountability/responsibility, no visible means to release into testing and production. To be honest, Legacy is pretty much borken as an organization at the people level.
Folks want/need to know what to do, who does what, and how things work. This may be an implied thing at the moment, but speaking from somebody looking in from the outside, I have to ask why bother?
1) Packagers - this is important obviously 2) Testers - packagers should not be testers, but testers should be defined3) Releaser Management - once QA is done, somebody needs to release the package to the production tree...
The three roles are very different, and these need to be filled by different people, i.e. no overlap in responsibility...
The bar is pretty high to get in, and this is intimidating for those who lack experience with items outside of the course of their normal usage. Not to say that folks could not rise up to the challenge, it's just that the path is poorly documented, and the tools are, to be honest, a bit tough to use. Again, it comes down to who and how...The learning curve is high, people look down at volunteers just becausethey don't/won't/can't use some technology (e.g. IRC), and there is littleeffort expended to get people to participate (though much flaming people for not participating).
Bingo... thing is that QA is the end of the line, and the one most needed and least respected by the folks that build packages. One thing that is very important, as the base of folks that would be potential QA candidates is to:There is also an emphasis on getting people to only help with QA, which is rather bad. If you can get people to start helping however they feel they can, they will generally and eventually start helping in other areas. But people generally need encouragement, and not flame wars, insults, and barriers.
1) spell out what is needed - what is the problem and fix, how to test it? 2) how to use the systems - how to mark tested, reopen, open new bugsFor the packagers... how to package for a release. I maintain my own boxen, so when a security issue pops up, I download source or make the fix locally. How to build a package and release it into testing remains somewhat of a mystery... I'd be happy to do so, if it were documented somehow.
More resources is not the answer - better management of the resources that are on board, and better tools to manage the process is what is needed.Or the need for resources is cut by reducing the number and time span of supported releases.An option, but it only makes the limited resources go further, when what we really need are more resources...
The process itself needs to be defined and clarified. Tim -- fedora-legacy-list mailing list fedora-legacy-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-legacy-list
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